S1/E11 – Harnessing the Power of Your Visual Brand with Kaila Piepkow

[00:00:00] Introduction to Kaila Piepkow

[00:00:01] Kaila: I was just working so much, I could never step away. I always had my phone on me. I was always answering a client and then going into my office and doing the design work and then doing a sales call and doing this, and it was 80 hour weeks. I think it was just me realizing that I can’t sustain this level of work, or I’m gonna get really burnt out. And I think that’s why a lot of businesses too will shut down because they’re in that constant churn mode. and that’s where I was. So I was very much: I’m not enjoying this. I am enjoying this. Let’s figure it out. Let’s figure it out. You can pick and choose the things that you like to do and put your effort there. At the end of the day, it’s me who I have to live with and I’m letting myself down by not staying true to what I like to do and what’s giving me joy. And I realize these are the things that are giving me joy. So let’s put our time and effort into that. And I’m a lot happier person now because of it. 

[00:00:52] Morgan: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Lucky Pup Podcast, where we’re taking big ideas and we them together in a way that makes the big picture relatable and hopefully also inspirational and educational. You’re gonna find candid and authentic conversations about the struggles we’ve encountered as we try to live more full and happy lives.

[00:01:10] I am your host, Morgan Weber, and today we are talking branding with Kaila of Your Branding Buddy. You may know her as the founder of Dox Design, a boutique visual branding agency that works for pet businesses. Kaila has been on her own entrepreneurship journey from freelancing on the side while working in a large design firm to jumping right into founding Dox Design full-time.

[00:01:30] She’s gonna take us through today why having a visual brand can be a huge asset to your business. But also some insights into how your role within your business can change to better suit your skills and passions. I don’t want you to miss out, so let’s dive in. 

[00:01:44] Kaila, thank you so much for joining us today and I’m really excited for people to get to know you better because we’ve had a chance to work together in the past. And, I just love everything that you do, so thank you so much for joining us.

[00:01:58] Kaila: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I see the little brand in the back that we

[00:02:01] Morgan: Yes. Right here, my little memory flame, and I’ve got my little memory flame candle. There we go. There’s my little candle as well. So yes, it was, it was a wonderful experience to work with you. I have to say, and this hashtag not an ad, but it was such a rewarding experience.

[00:02:19] ’cause I will say I have been the Chief Everything officer for our business for quite a while, and our first logo, so our Lucky Pup logo. I had a. College friend made that for me. So she was a graphic designer and I was like, Hey, can you make me a logo? So that’s what she made us and since then I have done the majority of our graphic design work.

[00:02:40] And I am not a graphic designer, but I say I know enough to be dangerous so I can do little parts of it. And so I had a logo for our memory flame candles. And I knew that it could use an upgrade. I had some goals that I wanted for what those candles could do, and I knew that we needed something different from what I had put together.

[00:03:00] And I think always when we get a professional’s help, it’s always gonna be a step above what we can do for ourselves. Even when you are a professional in something, is helpful to get another professional’s help because sometimes we’re just too close to the thing and we can’t . We can’t see what other people are seeing when they’re brand new to something.

[00:03:22] So anyway, so we just really enjoyed, and I will say I was one of those people who was like, Kayla, I don’t really need a new logo. I was cautious you could say handing this thing over and giving a little bit of a glow up, but you guys did such a fantastic job.

[00:03:36] So it was a wonderful experience. But I think that there’s a lot of people who, when they look at their branding, they say, oh, it’s great. So they look at their website and they say, oh, it’s great. And they don’t really understand that. There is some improvements that could be made. And so I’m sure that you help your clients understand that when they’re looking at their branding and they’re looking at, the visuals and the designs and creating packaging that sells and you do a lot of subscription boxes and all of these things, and I’m sure you have those kind of conversations with your clients a lot.

[00:04:04] The Power of Visual Storytelling in Branding

[00:04:04] Kaila: Yeah branding is such a personal thing, and we always say that it’s the power of visual storytelling. So at the end of the day, it’s a story that you’re telling and a lot of the times, the reason you started your business, there’s a lot of emotional things of why you started your business. We see a lot in the pet space. ” Like, Oh, my dog’s, my logo.”

[00:04:25] You know, a lot of that. There’s a lot there. So it’s my job as a branding professional to come in and really hear out our clients’ why, and to really hear and hold their hand through that emotional story and be like, yes, because it is so important to you, because it’s so emotional. We wanna make it the best. Um, aNd sometimes just even being able to hear that story and hear those words and let them tell it to me however they wanna tell it, I can repeat back to them things that they might be missing which is what I love it. ’cause at the end of the day, we are just taking that story and turning it into a brand, which at the end of the day is just a visual story to tell.

[00:04:59] Morgan: I think people don’t like, when I think of brand, I don’t necessarily think of visual storytelling, and especially in today’s, society, today’s culture, when somebody wants to look you up as a business, they go to Facebook, they go to Instagram, they go to your website, and if your visual story can’t

[00:05:19] Convey the word story that you want to tell. It can be really off-putting to some people there’s a branding company who calls it the five second caveman test. And if they can’t look at it and within five seconds know what you do, then, they just move on.

[00:05:32] And when we think about getting new clients and reaching out and creating these relationships with clients we can’t do that if they leave our website or our, . Instagram or whatever we’re looking at within five seconds, you can’t, you don’t even have that opportunity. And so to engage with somebody who can take that viewpoint is a big benefit for people.

[00:05:51] Kaila: Yeah, and I think a lot of people, when they hear the word branding, they think logo, and that’s where a lot of people get caught up. Even you said, you’re like, I like the logo. I don’t wanna touch it. But your logo isn’t the thing that’s just plastered everywhere. When we talk about the visual story, the visual brand, it’s the colors you’re using, fonts, patterns. illustrations, image style, your copywriting. It’s how all of that works together cohesively to be telling that story. So whether someone’s seeing a social media post really quickly, it’s going to your website landing page really quickly. Everything should be cohesive and working together towards that end goal and that end story in mind. So it is a very emotional thing that people connect to. And at the end of the day, you want people to be like, wow, this brand is for me. Because you designed it in a way to speak to that end person that you’re trying to reach. And I think a lot of people will try to be very general with that, is where a lot of brands will fall flat. Um, but like the more specific you can get with who you’re trying to target and what like emotion your brand is trying to get, the better your visuals can be and you really hone in on that and just make it that much more professional and that much more emotional connection to your customer.

[00:07:02] Morgan: people think when you’re first starting out, you gotta cast the net as wide as possible, right? I am new, I need to get whatever kind of client I can. But when you can niche down, it is amazing how much faster you can attract people to you. But I have to say, so I was on Instagram the other day and a reel popped up and it was this woman who makes stained glass. pieces, not much bigger than a phone, and they are all themed around cat butts or animal butts in general, and she puts like little gems.

[00:07:35] On them, I’ll let you, use your imagination. And they’re bright colors and there’s like unicorns and like prismatic gems, like casting these rainbow lights all over place. And I saw that and I thought to myself, who would’ve ever sat down to say, you know what, I’m gonna build a brand that is all about stained glass cat butts. And her Instagram had 30,000 followers, and her wait list was closed because everybody wanted , a stained glass cat butt. And it just brought to mind the power that niching can bring if you do it boldly. And maybe that’s the difference of needing to lean all in. I don’t know. But it definitely caught my attention.

[00:08:21] Kaila: That’s how I started my business. My husband thought I was crazy. When I told him that I was gonna start a design agency that focused on pets, he was like, what do you mean? Just get any client you can. it’s the reason my business is what it is today, is that I feel on pets and made that a part of my brand and that I am a dog lover and I love dogs and I don’t own a pet business, but I understand the pet world and I’m a huge dog person and All we use dog imagery and dog ponds and really bright font, colorful, fonts and bubbly and like we went for that market when I launched Docs, and that’s what got us where we are today. And we were able to now work with some of the biggest clients in the pet industry because I started out there and if I would’ve just been more general, like I started out, there’s a thousand freelancers and studios that can do branding for everyone, but every time we get a pet client, it’s because, oh, because you focus. On pets and because you get dogs. So being able to niche down like that is what got my business to where it is today. And the people can tell when you’re being authentic and if you’re just trying to be generalist and talk to everyone and be like, oh, I just, wanna target. Millennial women, and I love you guys, like people can tell if you’re not being super genuine to yourself, and there’s that loss of connection there.

[00:09:38] So the more that you can really start to like hone in on who you are and like what your brand is, and like really lean into that niche down, people will connect to that a lot faster because not only is it connecting to them because you made it that way, but they can tell that you’re being more genuine and authentic. 

[00:09:54] Morgan: Yeah. So how do you . 

[00:09:56] Understanding Your Brand

[00:09:56] Morgan: Even start, so somebody who says I wanna be authentic, but I can’t put into words like what it is that is authentic about me. I know you have had some like quizzes and, 

[00:10:06] Kaila: Yes. I was just gonna say we got a quiz

[00:10:08] for that. 

[00:10:09] Morgan: a quiz. 

[00:10:09] Kaila: We like, yeah, we have a brand vibe quiz that kind of breaks down. We’ve taken the six most popular vibes we call it, that people will come to us like, oh, I’m a natural and organic brand. Or I’m like, more bold, I’m more spunky, I’m more classic. And break it down into that, it’s like a 10 question quiz that can help you figure out like more what you’re Quote unquote vibe is then taking that a step further, I always the first question I ask people is like, why they started their business. I know that’s so cliche in the business world, like what’s your why? But like really though, like why did you start their business? And there’s usually an emotion connected to that. like. Oh, I really wanted people to feel safe and comforted. Okay. Let’s like lean into that comfort feeling. how can we evoke that in your brand? Like feeling like a warm embrace. Like a hug. Okay. I get a little woo-hoo with it because I’m creative and artsy like that, and that’s where I come in and help people, dig a little deeper than just being like, I want dogs to feel safe.

[00:11:03] It’s okay, but why? And like, who and what? And then we’re gonna visually showcase. 

[00:11:08] Morgan: And I think for those of us who have a hard time visualizing things, it can be so hard to even know where to start to have that conversation. And especially when you’re first starting out, you probably don’t have the funds necessary to, invest in a full brand package or you don’t feel like you can make that step and make that commitment.

[00:11:28] But it really can make such a difference, especially when you are going out there and you are marketing and you are trying to find those new clients. And because it is easier for to connect to a. Bold choice, you could say, whether it’s a bold choice as in we’re soft and cozy and warm or it’s a bold choice as in bright colors, whatever that is.

[00:11:48] I feel like we are visual, even if we can’t maybe speak visually or, speak what we would like to see. We still connect visually, so we still look at a brand. We look at a website and . go, oh, yeah. I like those people. Even though they’ve never met you they connect to the visuals that you’re putting out there.

[00:12:08] Kaila: Absolutely. I always use the scenario of a billboard, like you’re going down the road really quick. Like most of the time you’re not even reading what’s on that billboard. Same go for someone on your website, like before they’re even getting to the words, they’re reacting to the visuals, which is why I try to get the.

[00:12:22] Point across to people like it’s way more than your logo because it is the colors and the overall vibe, like the overall vibe that they’re gonna get, like you said, within the first five seconds is going to be through those visual markers, not through the copy. Same thing if you’re going down the road and looking at a billboard, if it’s like a black and white photo with a C type phase, you’re probably like law firm. Animal rescue, sad, whereas if you’re going with a big bright gradient, you’re like radio station, some like some sort of sports drink, so those visual cues really do of help people make that decision right off the bat.

[00:12:54] Morgan: Mm-Hmm. I am amazed how many new clients I, , I’ll ask them, oh, how did you find us? And, oh, I found you on Google. Or you had a lot of reviews, so I clicked on your website and I liked your website more than somebody else’s website, so I picked you.

[00:13:05] I was like well, that’s kind of cool. Like, I didn’t even have to do a whole lot of work there, I didn’t have to get on a phone call and have a half hour conversation with them. They just were like, yep, I liked you. Your website looked cool and it looked cooler than somebody else’s website.

[00:13:19] So the end, , it really shows the importance, especially I think in this day and age where everybody is so connected to their phones and their computers. It’s just it’s harder to find those connections if you don’t have a great visual brand.

[00:13:32] Kaila: Yeah, and they have so many options, so it’s what’s gonna make you the option that stands out nine times outta 10? It’s going to be your brand.

[00:13:39] Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. And so how have you Helped people understand that. ’cause I, again, I think it’s hard for people who just say I made my logo in Canva or it’s a picture of my pet. Or when I just started out, I was like, what if I just had words like it was just Lucky pup.

[00:13:53] Like it would be like Nike without the swoosh. Everybody sees Nike and they’re like, yep, I know what it is. And so for some people it’s hard to understand that importance. And do you have any suggestions for people when they’re first ? Deciding to want to invest in a more thought out brand of the benefits that they’re gonna get or those first considerations they should start making.

[00:14:14] Kaila: Yeah. So we do brand audits. So those are our calls with me and that’s usually the first starting place where if someone’s like on the fence about doing the whole thing or they’re like, I’m just interested to hear what a professional would say, but they don’t wanna like Invest the whole shebang. So people love those hour calls because I’ll do a lot of like upfront in depth work on their brand saying okay, this is what I’m getting from your website. I noticed this was inconsistent with this. And I give suggestions right off the bat for colors, fonts, illustrations, patterns. I break down what our toolkit is that we usually provide when we do the

[00:14:49] Full signature branding and it’s just like all written out for them. And then I also give them a Pinterest board that shows visual examples. Um, that way if they do feel empowered to do it themselves on Canva, they can match up my written suggestions with visuals. So if someone isn’t a visual person or has a hard time communicating that I go in and do my crazy, like creative thing of they’re like, why is there like a picture of a sweater on here?

[00:15:11] I’m like, . Oh, this pattern on this sweater remind me of a pattern you could do for your brand. And they’re like, oh, wow, I would’ve never even thought to do that. And now I have x, y, Z idea. And we always talk through all the suggestions, and then the last 30 minutes is a lot of q and a and Brainstorming and we always come out of those calls with really cool ideas. And the one I just had, they’re like, oh man, I have so many creative ideas. I never would’ve considered myself a creative person. But this really helped me get out of my own way. and now that you’ve given me a direction, I have such less overwhelm, I feel really empowered now to kind run with this and come up with some really cool things. And she just sent me like a gift card she did of Store all on her own.

[00:15:47] And I was like, oh my gosh. Love that. So yeah, I think that’s a really fun thing that I do. Is those brand audits a good kind of stepping stone for people who are in between wanting to do the full thing?

[00:15:57] For sure.

[00:15:58] Morgan: Yeah, because sometimes that’s all that there’s room for and the budget is, I just need a direction to go so I can at least get started in the right direction and then I can later make that bigger investment. But it is so nice to have that expert opinion and even just that, that outside feedback, because I think the hard part is when we ask friends and family or colleagues of some sort to say, Hey, can you look at this for me?

[00:16:23] They might be so excited for you that they aren’t really giving you that much helpful advice because they’re like, oh my God, it looks great. As opposed to saying, yeah, it’s, I love the direction you’re heading, but also have you considered,

[00:16:37] Kaila: And this can make it better sort of thing. Yeah,

[00:16:39] definitely 

[00:16:40] Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s hard when you start out and everyone’s your cheer squad and it’s yeah, I appreciate that, but I also need some I need something to work with here. yeah. And this .Yeah, I need some constructive criticism. Yeah. 

[00:16:52] Kaila’s Journey from Corporate to Entrepreneurship

[00:16:52] Morgan: Kayla, do you wanna tell folks maybe you started out in a large or at least a kind of a corporate graphic design position, is that right?

[00:16:59] Kaila: Yeah. I could talk a little bit about that and how this all came to be. I think this story relates with a lot of other small business owners. Um, so I always knew I wanted to do something in the creative field. I’ve always been like. Creative artsy person. And I was actually the editor of a yearbook.

[00:17:15] And so our teacher then was like, you should look in the graphic design. I went to a graphic design program. They only let 12 kids into the program. We started out with a hundred, I was one of the 12 to make it into the program um, which got me a. Pretty nice job at one of the top agencies here in the Midwest.

[00:17:30] I was working with brands like Target and Georgia Pacific and it was drilled into me in college you’re gonna go work in an agency, you’re gonna go work with these big brands, you’re gonna work your life away. You’re gonna work your way up the corporate ladder. You’re eventually gonna be an art director.

[00:17:43] And like . 30 years and just enjoyed this opportunity. And I made it like a year, not even, I don’t think, into this agency. And I was just like, I hate it. Oh my gosh. I just went to school for four years for this and it wasn’t what I thought it was gonna be and what am I gonna do? And having a midlife crisis at 22.

[00:18:03] So mostly for necessity out of creative, juices flowing. I just started freelancing on the side because my agency job, I was doing all the grunt work like most college grads do and my freelance work started picking up and more than I thought it would, and it’s because I. I said to myself, okay, if I’m gonna do freelance work, I want to actually work with clients that I enjoy. I had two dachshunds at the time. I was very ingrained in the dog world where I was living. I had my dog walker and the pet store I went to and the groomer. And once I started doing work for one, they started referring me to everyone that was in the pet world. And I was like, wow, these Pet people are homies.

[00:18:42] I love them. Okay, I’m gonna keep doing this. Um, and I told my husband, actually the week we were gonna get married, I was like, you know what, I’m gonna quit my job and just do this full-time. And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah, I think I’m just gonna work with pet people full-time. So I ended up filing for my LLC docs design named after my dachshunds.

[00:19:00] The week I got married, i quit my job. I, we sold our house, moved into our new one, converted our extra bedroom into an office. And that was like the first year of Doc’s design was, I was working with those freelance clients that I got when I had my full-time job. So I’m a corporate dropout. I never will go back to an office job again. It was not what I . Thought it was gonna be, but it was just a shame because in the college I went to, I think it’s a lot different now, especially like post pandemic world and in the online space. Being an entrepreneur and starting your own business wasn’t even something that was talked about as a career path that could be an option for me. They never, now they’re apparently the, I just go to, they have a whole class on entrepreneurism and like all this stuff. I’m like, okay, cool. They never even told me that was an option for me. So it’s it’s nice that kind of narrative’s being changed now because it would’ve been nice to know upfront like, Hey, I could have probably done this from the get go.

[00:19:55] Morgan: Yeah, and I have a very similar story where, ’cause I went to architecture school and very similar, you go to architecture school, then you have to do an internship and usually it’s about five years. Once you do that, you have to take your tests and then you can be a licensed architect, yada yada.

[00:20:10] And I, same thing I about a year. Less than a year out of college. In my first corporate job, I was just looking around and I was like I have not drunk the Kool-Aid and a different job that worked a little bit better, but, years went by and I was like, this is not what I signed up for.

[00:20:26] The things that I loved the most about. The design work I wasn’t doing because you do all the other stuff, like the part that you love, like working with clients and figuring out the thing that makes them tick is this much and all of the busy work is . The rest. And that was a, that was definitely a struggle.

[00:20:44] So I can appreciate the, that side of it. And I don’t know about you, but when I told my parents I was gonna quit my nice corporate job to be a dog walker my mother especially was very concerned, . And so it sounds like your husband also maybe had some concerns as well 

[00:21:01] Kaila: well like the

[00:21:01] day before a wedding, I was like, by the way, since we’re getting married tomorrow, I’m quitting my job, and he was like uh, okay. Trying to be supportive husband. Now, all the time I bring it up and I laugh at him and I’m like, remember when you told me that my business idea was stupid? You didn’t think it was gonna work, I have three employees now. so now whenever I tell him my next idea, he’s like, I’m not gonna say nothing because you’ll somehow make it work. And I’m like, and that’s what US entrepreneurs do. We can’t help it.

[00:21:27] Morgan: Yes. And, and that just shows the tenacity I would say that it takes to be a business owner too. ’cause there’s always gonna be somebody who’s like, are you sure this is the right decision? And only you can know whether it is or whether it isn’t. But it’s it can be hard to bring everybody else along with you when you make that big jump or when you say yep, this has been working great.

[00:21:47] But I’m gonna switch gears ’cause this. Thing over here is not serving me the way that I wish it to, and now I would like to do something else. And that’s, that can be really scary and that can be really hard. And having people who if they’d say, yep, that’s awesome. You go, cool. Thanks for coming with me.

[00:22:04] Or being willing to make those decisions that not everybody is excited for, and everybody’s in your court helping you out.

[00:22:10] Kaila: I think also, especially when you’re doing something that’s never been done before, like the whole, oh, I’m gonna niche down with pets. This was almost six years ago. I started docs that wasn’t done. Now I see every month a dog related branding agency or like some freelancers snitching down, dogs popping up and following us.

[00:22:27] And I like it ’cause they follow us and they reach out to me and they’re like, you inspired me. Like I love this. But I’m like, yeah, well there wasn’t a thing six. Years ago ago. So it can be, you very validating to see that too. But it can also be scary when you’re the first kind of one to come up with an idea and you’re like, is this gonna work? I dunno, but I am like a big advocate for just do it. If you believe in yourself, you really can make it happen.

[00:22:47] Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:22:49] The Impact of Hiring and Scaling a Business

[00:22:49] Morgan: So where in your business journey there over the last six years, did you start adding team members? Because you do it like you have, there’s a whole team of docs, and so how did you kinda get to that point where you are like, yep, I need to add people and I need to add more people?

[00:23:03] Kaila: I would say the second year in business is when we really started picking up and I was like, I cannot be running a business doing all the design work, doing all the sales, the marketing, the accounting. I Everyone listening to this podcast knows how that goes. So that was where I made the decision of, you know what, designing part of the business is actually the thing I enjoy doing the least.

[00:23:24] Like I enjoy more of the talking to clients, the like marketing, the sales, the like crazy big entrepreneurial ideas of like where we’re gonna go next and then like creative directing where the brand’s gonna go. So my first hire was actually another designer right out of college. She’s been with us for the past. Five years. She’s the lead designer on docs. So we started on a contracting basis and now she is like running all of our design work, which is awesome. And then from there, because I was able to hire her and take off one of those hats at the same time, I also, sought out some other professionals.

[00:23:58] I actually got a real accountant. I, hIred a person to help with my social media. It freed up time for me to be able to . Focus on growing the business. So I was then, put more into that CEO role of being able to grow the business and still do the things I like in the business. know, Still keep my pulse on all the brands and give the big creative direction ideas, but not actually have to do it.

[00:24:19] And because I was able to do that, I was able to scale the business a lot faster. So about the three to four year mark I hired two more designers because at that point we had it all the operations down, good to go. And it was just like, okay, get the sales, bring on more designers, get the sales, bring on more designers. But I would say making that first jump of that first hire is what got me to be able to to scale my business. I know that’s a really scary emotional thing for a lot of people. I know. It was for me, I was like in the kitchen crying to my husband. I was like, oh my gosh. Someone depends on me for their paycheck.

[00:24:50] this is terrifying. Um, but being able to do it is, what gave me time back in my day to be able to put my efforts where they were most needed.

[00:24:59] Morgan: Yeah, I think it’s important for people to hear that. You are the owner of a design firm who is not doing the design work and also not doing the social media. 

[00:25:11] Kaila: Yeah, 

[00:25:11] Morgan: you then you look at a pet sitting company who is probably doing their own design work and doing their own social media and walking some dogs and also trying to run the business, the admin side of the business. And it’s a lot. did you have a moment where you, it was like the catalyst moment for you to say I cannot do this on my own anymore. I need to start . Hiring these things out, or was it a slow, gradual process? 

[00:25:34] Kaila: I would say, I can’t specifically say, there was like one moment where I was like, it was, I was just working so much, like I could never step away. Like I always had my phone on me. I was always answering a client and then going into my office and doing the design work and then doing like doing a sales call and doing this, and it was 80. 80 Hour, weeks, it was insane. And I was like 23 at the time, so I could do that. I am gonna be 30 this year. I can’t do that anymore. so Yeah, I think it was just me like looking future forward and being, realizing that I can’t sustain this level of work. Or I’m gonna get really burnt out. And I think that’s why a lot of businesses too will shut down after the second or third years because they’re in that constant like churn mode. and that’s where I was. I I am pretty good at being able to realize what I like and don’t like. I’m a very decisive person, so I was very much I’m not enjoying this. I am enjoying this. Let’s figure it out. Let’s figure it out. So, Yeah I’m really grateful that I was able to do that.

[00:26:30] And yeah. Now, like you said, I’m I was a designer, trained designer, don’t do design work anymore. I don’t think I have actually touched and designed a brand for the past three years. Um, so you know, I have my whole team of designers now. Not to say I still do have, my design shops and have my pulse on all the brands, but you know, you can pick and choose the things that you like to do and put your effort there. And just because you went to school for something for four years doesn’t mean it has to be the thing that you are doing. I think that was a really big mental hurdle that I had to overcome where it was like. Oh, I just spent four years in school, like all this money on student loans, like all this time, all these internships I’m gonna let everyone down, I’m gonna let my professors down.

[00:27:10] And then I’m like, you know what though? At the end of the day, it’s me who I have to live with and I’m letting myself down right now by not staying true to what I like to do and what’s giving me joy. And I realize these are the things that are giving me joy. So let’s put our time and effort into that. And I’m a lot happier person now because of it. 

[00:27:29] Morgan: Yeah. Was it hard for you to make that switch into more of a CEO role as opposed to the lead designer, 

[00:27:34] Kaila: Uh,

[00:27:35] I definitely am a bit of a control freak, so it was hard to get someone else to do the design when I had such a level of what I expected. But after that initial training period, and, I actually now, since we’re like such a well-oiled machine, we have a whole, like training Sequence that the designers go through. And our operations and processes are really nailed down. So now I’m they got it. We’re good. I’m not worried about it. But those initial, first bringing people on is what got me to be able to do that and scale to business even more. So yeah, I think just having some training in place and being able to have some reassurances that we’re not just like running around with chickens with our heads cut off really helped. But yeah, I would say that first, like initial year was very much like me. Hey, what’s going on? Hey, I’m your annoying boss who’s checking in every four seconds.

[00:28:20] Morgan: And you guys are very much a boutique design firm ‘

[00:28:23] Kaila: I would say I would put us there, like in that realm

[00:28:26] Morgan: Yeah. And so it’s, much like most of our pet sitters don’t wanna be the cheapest pet sitter out there, you’re not the cheapest designer out there. Was that hard for you to set those prices to say we need to, the right talent. I am in a leadership role. Like, I’ve gotta be able to pay all of these bills and, have some cushion for the future. Did you have any struggles or stumbling blocks on wanting to set your prices where you set them and I’m assuming you did it very intentionally.

[00:28:50] Kaila: We did it very gradually, very intentionally. So when I first started out, I was charging a thousand dollars for a brand like when I first, my first year docs. Now I think we’re up to $10,000, I think is what we

[00:29:03] Morgan: And your signature brand is not just a logo and some patterns, you go very in depth and it’s market research and it’s like a, 20, 30 page

[00:29:12] Kaila: yeah. Yeah. So it’s one of two things . A, our actual package and process has been so streamlined and I’m very confident in what we’re selling. I know what you’re gonna get at the end of the day is gonna be a return on investment for you. I mean, We’ve had clients hit million dollars in sales, B wholesale than PetSmart, like crazy stuff because of this.

[00:29:31] And so I’m more confident now because if we have the client base and we have the team and the processes to back that up. But when I was first making that first bump when I hired Zan, I think we jumped from like 1000 to 4,000. So it was a pretty big jump right off the bat. And half my clients didn’t even blink an eye.

[00:29:47] I was like, why didn’t I do this like last year? Because they’re like, oh yeah, sure. Okay. I had no issues. When at first, now going from from then on, like every year we raised it like a couple grand. A couple grand, I think because it was such a gradual thing. When people find us now, it’s like we’re either in your price range or we’re not.

[00:30:05] And if I. We’re not, I do get that every now and then. I’m sure like every other pet said are like, I saw someone on Fiverr. It charges $50 for a logo. I used to get so worked up about those emails and like draft something. Now I just ignore them and I don’t even respond. I’m like, okay good luck with that. We’re not gonna be a good fit for you. Then I think a lot of that, I try not to take things too personally and I’m confident in our prices and I know why we charge what we charge and at the end of the day, if I do get an email like that, I’m just like, you know what? We’re not gonna be good for.

[00:30:31] For you and for every person I get for that, I get four people come in the door who are excited to work with us. 

[00:30:36] The Power of Confidence in Business

[00:30:36] Kaila: I actually just saw a quote today and it was like I don’t know the exact quote. It was something about like having confidence because there’s people out there who are charging more than you and doing a lot less

[00:30:47] Morgan: I think I saw this exact same

[00:30:49] Kaila: yeah. 

[00:30:49] Morgan: item today. 

[00:30:50] Kaila: Like having more confidence in your ability that people have in their mediocracy was the like comparison of there’s people out there who are doing it worse than you and more expensive than you. 

[00:31:03] So to have some confidence in your pricing and your abilities. And I was like, that really resonated with me is a business owner for sure.

[00:31:10] Morgan: . So when you’re coaching people on their brand, is that something that you talk with them about too? Because your brand is more, again, it’s more than just the visuals and is that something that you help people understand? And you can say Hey, I have scaled, I have hired, I have gone through these same struggles as you, and you can help coach people along because again, yeah, their brand is more than just the visual.

[00:31:30] Kaila: Yeah, definitely. I don’t try to sell myself on being an expert on anything that I’m not. So at the end of the day, I am a visual brand expert. For it. And like I, we focus mainly on that in the call. But, I do love to be a good small business therapist, a little online business friend. So yeah, I have on those calls, like talk through people. People wanna know like, how’d you get dogs? What it is? Or just pick my brain. I think at the end of the day, no matter what industry you’re in, um, there are certain roadblocks that all small business owners have to overcome. And if I could help someone from having to make the same mistake that I did. I love to give that insight, but yeah, I’m not like an accountant expert or so I can tell people like the mistakes I made and for example of my like second year business, I hired a horrible accountant who made some really bad business decisions for me.

[00:32:17] That stuck me with a huge tax bill. Will I ever refer someone to that person. No, and I will let them know. They’re like, never hire an accountant, like through a Facebook group, actually do like your due diligence, and I have now a very reputable accountant that I always refer people to who is just hands down, amazing. And I think even just being in the business world for the past six years, being able to come up with some of those vendors and contacts is a, like I take for granted, How special that is to have that for versus someone who’s just starting out. You don’t even know where to look for that stuff. So even just that type of value, I love to give to business owners ’cause I know it can be so hard to find the right people that actually do their job, do it right, do it on time, communicate well to you.

[00:33:03] And finding those people is like gold. And I like cherish them deeply and I want other small businesses to be able to use them.

[00:33:11] Morgan: Yeah, I remember we had an accountant. I mean, They were fine. There was nothing great about them. Nothing bad about them as far as I was made aware, but, I just wasn’t super happy with them. And I actually reached out to my attorney and I said Hey, do you know any great small business accountants? And actually I do. And I’ve got this person. And then that person referred me to, another contact that they had. And it’s so hard to find those reputable . People because it’s like, you’re right. It’s so easy to go into a group 

[00:33:39] and everybody has an opinion, but it’s so hard to know which of the opinions are good opinions and which opinions are gonna stick you with a big tax bill 

[00:33:47] Kaila: Or what works for you? At the end of the day, this goes back to the brand thing okay, the type of brand I am, I’m a very personable person and I like to feel like the people I work with are like my friends. And so I don’t do good with the button up like tie type of accountant.

[00:34:02] That’s not my vibe. That’s not how our business operates. And so like I had to find someone that like communicated in the way that I liked. To like work and fit well within like almost our like brand culture. So I think it, goes back to that too of okay, how does your business operate?

[00:34:18] Like what is your brand vibe, quote unquote at the end of the day? And like finding those people that can get behind that and can help champion that I think is really important.

[00:34:26] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:34:27] Finding the Right Graphic Designer

[00:34:27] Morgan: And so do you have any suggestion for people when they are looking for a graphic designer or they’re looking for a brand expert and someone to really help shepherd them through this process? You know how to find somebody that you are going to be excited to work with because I’ve had like small graphic design things where I used a friend’s graphic designer to, to do a little project for me, and then I get it and I was like that was a waste of a hundred bucks.

[00:34:51] Like, I’m not super excited about this, it’s hard, again to know who you’re going to connect with, and if you are thinking about spending a good chunk of change a, on a brand package, or again, just even help with a brand coach, how do you suggest people even start having those conversations with people?

[00:35:08] Kaila: So not on Fiverr or at 99 Designs or any of those places, like I can’t tell you the horror stories I have from past clients or just friends and business owners going on those places. I think my favorite thing to do and how sometimes I even find designers that I will like, reach out to look at brands that you like? Is there a brand that you love and follow on Instagram and you’re like, I’m obsessed with this. Everything they do is amazing. S business owners do wanna help other business owners. Now, granted, don’t reach out to your direct competitor and be like, Hey, who did your brand? Can I have their contact? Because they’re probably not gonna give it to you. I always say like that you have people that like, get out of this, the industry you’re in.

[00:35:46] So like if you’re in the pet industry, okay, like what beauty brands do you follow that you’re like obsessed with know, something that aligns more with your values. I feel hard trying to be like more natural and organic. What are some like natural, like human food brands that you follow and and love the packaging. And can you reach out to some of those people and be like, Hey, I really love your packaging.

[00:36:02] Who did it? And nine times outta 10, they’ll like, oh, I have a fabulous graphic designer I use, or X, Y, and Z. Here’s your profile. Look at it, and then you have a referral right off the bat. You’ve seen work. You know that you’re gonna get something that you like. Um, so I think that’s one of my favorite ways to start looking for people. I also love Instagram for finding designers, because obviously design is such a visual thing. There are a ton of really talented freelancers out there that share mock work and share, like the type of work that they do. You could literally go like into the search bar and type pet brand or pet logo and a thousand will pop up, start clicking on some of the ones you like and like seeing, if it’s like a type of profile that shares a bunch of design work, they’ll usually tag the designer. You can go down that rabbit hole of finding people. So those are my two ways. And then if you are getting just Like random referrals. Make sure they have a portfolio. Make sure it’s not just like a bunch of logos. Make sure that you’re actually getting like a fully fledged out process. So making sure that A, they have a visual portfolio and B, asking them like what their process is.

[00:37:03] Okay, what is the process you’re going to take me through to make sure I’m getting a brand? And if they’re like, oh, I just opened my computer and start designing, that’s a red flag. They should have some sort of process where it’s an intake form, a questionnaire, they’re getting on a kickoff call with you, they’re giving you a mood board first.

[00:37:19] They’re know, giving you some revisions. If they don’t have a detailed process like that, the chances are you’re probably not gonna get the best work at the end of it.

[00:37:27] Morgan: Yeah, because it is so personal, and like you said, it’s about, you know how . How do you wanna have your brand be perceived by the world? And it can be so easy to think, oh, it’s not that big of a deal. Like a logo’s, a logo, a color suite’s a color suite, but it really does affect people’s perception of you.

[00:37:46] And it’s, if you’re trying to be a, a fun professional brand, but your visuals are saying otherwise, it can really get confusing or it can maybe dilute the, again, the story you’re trying to tell.

[00:37:57] Kaila: Exactly, yes.

[00:37:59] The Power of Women in Business

[00:37:59] Morgan: Yeah. I know you’ve talked about you have grown an all women team did you kind of go out intentionally trying to do this or did It happen kind of organically?

[00:38:08] Kaila: It happened organically. I would say 90% of the clients we work with are women too. And a lot of them say it’s ’cause we’re woman owned, and we’re an all woman team. I think again, just the culture that we like jived better. We didn’t have a male copywriter there for a second. He was awesome. Shout out Sean he was awesome, but he was like, and all of us like shared our Taylor Swift memes to each other and our Slack channel and he was like, okay. yeAh, I, I. I first started, I didn’t intentionally do that, but now I’m a little bit more cognizant of that because I hear time and time again.

[00:38:40] Our clients love that, like we’re all women and we understand. And I think specifically because we do work in the pet industry, I, in my experience, it’s a very heavily. Women own businesses especially. We work with a lot of pet accessory and pet apparel companies, and those tend to be very like, women focused and they’ll say all the time oh, I just know, I was interviewing a couple branding firms and I just got a really bad vibe from like this one because they’re like laughing at me because I make bandanas for dogs and they like didn’t get it.

[00:39:10] And I was like, dude, I make a lot of money doing this. And you just turned me off from your whole marketing firm because you were like, oh. Cute little girl with her little sewing machine making bandanas for the little cute puppies. How cute. So I think a lot of, the clients we’ve worked feel like they weren’t being taken seriously and they weren’t being understood. I think a lot of women can relate to this specifically. So when they come to us and they’re like, you guys get it. Like not only from being a woman-owned business standpoint, but also like in the pet space, like this isn’t some like cute little hobby I’m doing. I’m trying to make this into a legit money making business and you’re taking this seriously has been like another really big thing I’ve heard.

[00:39:49] Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. ’cause yeah, every, everybody wants to be seen for what they do, and nobody wants to work with somebody who is patronizing or who is, really putting down the effort that they’re putting in. And like you said, these people are successful enough to be able to hire an agency to take that part of their business and work on it.

[00:40:08] pEople don’t do that lightly. They don’t just say, oh, I’m gonna have just have somebody do this. Like, They’re intentional enough in their business to, to want to make that move. And for somebody to put down the work that they are doing is yeah, that, that’s another one of those red flags, 

[00:40:23] Kaila: or to Be seen almost as like a hobby. this is not, I’m not a hobbyist. I am an entrepreneur and I’m trying to grow a business here.

[00:40:29] Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. And when you are working with, some of these companies, is there a stumbling block maybe that you see a lot of them kind of getting caught up on as you’re talking through you their brand audits or when they’re trying to find that the right vibe for their brand and the direction they wanna go.

[00:40:49] Kaila: Yeah. I think the biggest one I see is like the competitor trap. So , When they tell me brands they like and they show me like four other brands in the exact same space as them. And I’m like, yes. And every single one looks the exact same. And if we just make your brand look like all theirs, you’re just gonna look like theirs too. So like I said, I always challenge people to go out their industry, but feeling like they have to do something because all their competitors are doing it. And I see this a lot in the pet apparel space specifically now that apparel and graphics are becoming such a big thing with like t-shirts and sweatshirts, and I’m sure you’ve seen like the same dog saying like a thousand times on eight different companies. And I think it’s this competitive trap people fall into where it’s oh, they are doing it and like it did well for them, so I’m just gonna do it. I’m like, yeah, but your brand is like super edgy and spunky. Why would you do this? Like curse font. Insane. That’s like more feminine. That’s their brand.

[00:41:40] Let’s stay true to your brand. So sometimes having to talk people off of no, we’re not gonna use Blue because everyone else in the space is using Blue. Actually not using Blue is gonna be a real big strength there because your brand’s gonna stand out. Um, so I think it, it’s like that what’s the word I’m looking like, know, when you’re like in two lines and one’s really long and one’s really short and you’re like, I don’t really wanna go in the short line because Something’s wrong there, so I’m gonna go in the long line with everyone. I feel like sometimes that happens with branding where it’s oh, but all these companies are like doing this, so I feel like I gotta do it. And if I go over here and like actually stay true to myself and do what feels right to me, like it’s not gonna work when nine times outta 10, it’s the exact opposite.

[00:42:20] Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, so true. Because it is, it’s like scary to think this huge group of people over here, they must know something that I don’t know, because otherwise, why would they be all be over here? And then it turns out that . Yeah, they don’t know what they’re doing either and everyone’s just congregating together. 

[00:42:37] Considering All Aspects of a Brand

[00:42:37] Morgan: And so you have done a lot of work also like in the subscription box space and designing subscription boxes and designing packaging. And I would think that would also be a space that’s hard to work in because sim, same thing. Everyone’s got their toy box subscription or their treat subscription or their toys and treat subscription and how can you help people stand out? Like you said, when everyone’s doing a similar thing and to help them be the one that stands out,

[00:43:04] Kaila: A lot of it has to do with the packaging and the actual box design. So our team specifically has designed seven bark day boxes. like seven different brands bark day boxes, and every single one looks different, but every single one has not the same products, but you know, generally the same thing.

[00:43:22] Like there’s some sort of cake product, there’s some sort of bandana product. But at the end of the day it goes back to the branding and the packaging component of it. And a lot of times this is why companies will come to us because they’ll start with their packaging design. I think you were kind one where it was like, oh, I just have a logo.

[00:43:36] I can’t really do a lot with just a logo on packaging design. That’s, I think where a lot of people will see the pain point of just having a logo. ’cause they’re like, okay, I can’t. Barely decide a box with just a logo like this doesn’t look great. And that’s where they start to realize oh, I need the brand. So once they have the brand, then you know, we can make a really cool kick-ass box for them that stays true to who they are. Whether it’s personalizing it or having a really fun illustration on the outside and really spunky, sane in their brand font. Being able to stand out visually that way with the subscription boxes specifically, I think is super helpful. the unboxing experience is becoming part of the experience, not just what’s inside of it.

[00:44:14] Morgan: And that was something when we were redesigning memory flame is I very much wanted it to be a gift experience because I I feel probably most people have had this experience where you receive a gift in the mail and one you don’t know what it is ’cause it comes in just like a plain cardboard box.

[00:44:29] And two, there’s nothing that tells you who the package came from. And it is so frustrating to have to go like to social media and say, Hey, I just received this awesome gift, but I have no idea who actually sent it. And it’s not a great experience to not know who sent you something, especially if it is a really touching gift or it I’ve received Christmas presents and there’s nothing in there from the company who tells me, who actually sent me the thing.

[00:44:56] And that can be really frustrating. And so I very much was like, I would like to have this whole a gift experience and how do I actually portray that? And then how does that . Gift experience carry into the cards that we put in there and how does that translate into the handwritten notes that we do, and then the label and how the package arrives on their front step.

[00:45:14] And , I didn’t think about all of that at the beginning. I just said, you I want a better package. So when it arrives to somebody’s house, like it looks really nice, or I could wholesale this, or I can, start going to conferences and get the brand awareness out there. And you really helped me understand that it’s more than a logo and you see a lot of people who have updated a brand and they get like a logo and a pattern.

[00:45:35] It may be a couple colors and you’re like, oh, that’s apparently what branding is. But it’s so much more than just a logo, maybe a pattern, maybe a couple colors,

[00:45:43] Kaila: Yeah. And you did a great job. Morgan is a great case study too, of we do have people who hire us to like do everything, but you know, we also have people who are like Know enough to be dangerous, like you said, but they just need the tools and like the direction to go in to be able to do that stuff. And you were like a great example of that where it’s like being able to give you the tools and you really just ran with it. Girl, you did so much with the brand. I’m like, oh my gosh, I just saw you at that conference in Florida. I’m like, your booth looks so good. She had all these signs and these little like quote cards. I was like, wow. I was blown away by how you used everything.

[00:46:18] Morgan: Oh, thank you. And part, and that was because you gave me the direction, so my husband works for a local pet company and they’re getting like a graphic done. And they had a graphic designer do it and he’s we don’t really love it, but we don’t know how to fix it.

[00:46:34] And when you’re in that position where you’re like I know this isn’t as good as it could be, but I also, I have no idea how to make this any better. So, You really gave me those tools to create that visual and to create those guidelines. And then I can say, oh I can see it now and now I can apply that in other ways. And and it’s evolved ’cause I think we worked together a year ago. 

[00:46:54] Kaila: I can’t believe that. Yeah, I think it’s been almost a

[00:46:57] Morgan: I think it’s been at least a year and and things have changed since then too. ’cause I keep evolving like what you guys have done and I was like, oh, what if I did it this way and what if I just changed this little element?

[00:47:07] And it’s been really fun for me just to see how I’ve continued to be able to level up the product that we’re giving to people. ’cause for those who don’t know their remembrance candles, and when somebody sends that type of gift, you want it to be very impactful, but also not too flashy. So it’s this hard point of being that kind of, again, that like warm, comforting gift without it being too over the top and not wanting to make my brand be the biggest thing about the box, which can also be hard to have that kind of tone down and make sure it’s about the gift on the inside and not look at all my cool brand elements and how they all tie together, because the people getting it, they just really care that it’s a very special item that they get. But definitely, you stretched my belief of what the brand could be and it’s been fun to be able to continue to take that forward.

[00:47:56] Kaila: I love that small. I feel like sometimes, like even things like the brand audits, like I feel like it’s just such a small little thing that took me two seconds to be like X, Y, Z pointed out. But I forget even being a business owner myself, like someone who’s in the day-to-Day. It isn’t a small thing. It’s actually a very large impact for them, and it’s something they would’ve never seen. ’cause they got their blinders on because they’re so in the day-to-Day, and it’s something like that rejuvenates them. I just love seeing what our clients do with the some of the suggestions I give them, where it’s like, okay, this suggestion took me like two seconds to see because I’m not in the day to day, but it was like such a big impact for them. So I love hearing

[00:48:32] Morgan: Yeah, and then you have that expertise too. Yeah, it might take you two seconds, but you’ve got, a decade of experience to back that up. So it’s not like you’re just, oh, you should change that color to this color. You know that some people think of what branding is and there’s so much more that comes down to the ability to see those things.

[00:48:50] and. 

[00:48:51] Kaila: very nuanced.

[00:48:51] Morgan: Yeah. 

[00:48:52] The Benefits of Attending Conferences

[00:48:52] Morgan: And you go to a lot of conferences as well, right? You do a fair amount of speaking and I know you’ve been to some really awesome branding conferences and subscription box conferences and all of these things. And what do you love the most about getting to go to these conferences and whether you’re presenting or you’re, hosting a workshop or you’re just being able to talk with people who have these businesses, what do you love doing about that?

[00:49:12] Kaila: probably just the face-to-face for sure. Like I’m just such a connector. Like I love connecting with people and hearing their stories, but I also love connecting like other business owners with other business owners. So I just love like that face-to-face time, being able to talk to people and just having those Connections. Like I said, I love being able to have reliable people that I can refer other people to, but also just being like, Hey oh, I’m a real person. You’re a real person.

[00:49:37] And like, tell me that story and love your shirt. Where’d you buy it? Just those like small little interactions like that are my favorite part about the conferences for sure.

[00:49:45] Morgan: I didn’t go to a conference for quite a while, like I had been to some conferences in my previous world. But once I got into pet care stuff one, I didn’t know that there was even this option of pet care conferences. And then two, by the time I did find them, I was so busy that I did not

[00:50:00] Prioritize making the time to get to go to them. In the last few years I’ve really been able to go to quite a few and it has been so rewarding to get to know people. Like you said, that face-to-face interaction time that you don’t get in a Facebook group or, messaging back and forth with somebody, but to actually get to go out to dinner or to, just get to see them for two seconds in the hallway.

[00:50:21] It’s like you said, like 

[00:50:22] Kaila: Yeah. I can’t tell you how many people like come up to me when I’m at conferences and they’re like, are you Kayla from Docs? And I’m like. Yes. And they’re like, oh my God, I’ve been following you on Instagram for so long and I loved X, Y, and Z. And I’m like, oh my God, tell me more. Because yeah, it is hard to connect with every single one of your followers or every single person in the Facebook groups or just even having that moment of like you said, like the two seconds in the hallway. And it’s like now when I’m like on Instagram and I see that person, I’m like, oh, I remember you. I talked to you at the conference that it’s so much more impactful now.

[00:50:49] Morgan: I believe that social media should be social and it, the whole part of social media is to make those like real life connections with people. And I’ve met people in groups and we’ve, started talking on Instagram and you start like actually having a real deeper conversation other than, oh, that’s really cute.

[00:51:08] Or oh, nice picture. And it’s amazing when you get to then meet those people in real life, like you said, it’s just it’s a full circle moment and it . Sometimes I feel like when you’re on social media, it’s like talking into the void , and when you get to meet a real person, it’s oh, like this is the person 

[00:51:24] Kaila: Exactly. It is like, oh, you actually listen to what I’m saying. I love this. Okay. 

[00:51:29] Morgan: Yeah, for sure. Kaila, what kind of conferences do you have coming up? Because I know you’ve got a couple right.

[00:51:34] Kaila: Yeah. The one I am the most excited for is I’m gonna be speaking at the Atlanta market. Um, so that’s a really big one for retailers and product so product companies, . We’ll showcase there. Then retailers go to these markets and go to all the booths and try to figure out who they’re wholesaling.

[00:51:50] So I’m doing an education breakout on branding there. And then I’m also gonna be doing the subs summit, so I’m excited for that too.

[00:51:58] Morgan: And that’s subscription boxes. Right. And so is it like all kinds of subscription boxes or is it more in the pet space? Oh, cool.

[00:52:06] Kaila: No, I actually don’t have a ton of pet space ones lined up. I’m working on it though. I’m working on it.

[00:52:11] Morgan: Fantastic. Kayla, how can folks find you? So if they wanna follow along with all of your adventures and get their brand audits, how do they find that?

[00:52:20] Kaila: Yes. So your branding buddy is my username on Instagram. Caleb pco.com is my personal website where you can see all past podcasts. Speaking and also book those brand audit calls. We also have your build your own brand course on there as well, which was put together in partnership with Docs. So that’s a breakdown of our branding process there. But yeah, Kayla PCO and your branding buddy are the two places you can find me.

[00:52:48] Morgan: Fantastic. Kayla, thank you so much for sharing. We have really gotten that . The importance of branding, and I really hope that people understand that. Again, it’s not just the words that you’re saying, but also the visuals that you’re putting out. And it all works together and it’s all, it’s all a cohesive, I call ’em a cohesive ecosystem like your business.

[00:53:06] All of these things work together and really how having a cohesive visual brand can really support the work that people are doing in their day-to-Day work. So thank you so much for coming on, and I so appreciate it.

[00:53:19] Kaila: Of course. Thanks for having me. Love chatting.

[00:53:21] ​ 

[00:53:22] Morgan: Thank you so much for listening today. You can find show notes, transcripts, and more on our website, LuckyPupPod. com. Don’t forget, review, comment, like, share this conversation with your friends. Then, don’t forget to reach out. You can find us on Instagram at LuckyPupPod or LuckyPupPodcast on Facebook. Or send us an email, info at LuckyPupPod.

[00:53:48] com. Until then, don’t forget to live a more full and happy life. We’ll talk to you soon.